News: 张林:赵紫阳是一个朴实的人: Zhang Lin: Zhao Ziyang was a Sincere Man

张林:赵紫阳是一个朴实的人 Interview with Zhang Lin: Zhao Ziyang was a Sincere Man


【大纪元1月26日讯】(记者秦越、文正报道)著名的民运人士张林日前在接受记者采访时,表达了对刚刚逝世不久的赵紫阳先生的哀思,他评价赵是一个很朴实的人,是一个心里装着老百姓的独特的中共领导人。


林1986年即开始从事地下民运活动,曾建立多个地下民运组织。1989年学运时期,在安徽建立“未来学会安徽分会”等多个学生和工人组织。同年6月8日
被捕,91年出狱后,继续投身中国民主事业,于95年5月再次被捕。98年劳教期满后,赴美参加海外民运活动,并与同年10月底,越境返回祖国,第二天即
第3次被当局逮捕,被 判处三年劳教,直至2001年底劳教期满。

赵紫阳的悲剧是一种必然

在采访中张林认为赵紫阳是过去这几
十年来一个非常正直的共产党员,跟他的同事不同。他说:“实际上我还有很多的朋友这么多年来都在想这件事,都希望赵紫阳能获得自由,而且我们本来相信他一
定能活着等到中国施行民主的那一天,现在感到很遗憾,这么早就去了,所以我们听到他们去世的消息,心里是很悲痛的。”

赵紫阳和胡耀邦两个人
都是非常受到百姓拥戴的领导人,但是最终两个人的结局都非常悲惨,对此张林认为他们的悲剧是一种必然,他说:“因为他们所面对的反动势力、专制势力太强大
了,让他们发现到共产党主义是一场很荒唐的恶梦,所以极力想扭转这种状况,想要将中国领导到一条民主道路的时候,他们就遇到了党内的一些反动保守势力猛烈
的攻击,所以他们先后都失败了。”

赵紫阳是一个很朴实的人

张林认为赵紫阳不像大部份的共产党都是唯物主义者,极端的自私
自利,就像动物一样自私和野蛮,心里面没有别人,只有自己。赵紫阳心里能够装着别人,是一个很朴实的政治家,至少是一个普通人,有一个普通人的心态,有对
其他人的一种真诚的关心。他举了毛时代的一个例子,那时的中国人所承受的苦难最主要的一条就是“挨饿”,赵紫阳在那个年代没有把精力投注到马克斯、列宁主
义这些乱七八糟的东西上,而是把注意力花在怎样种粮食方面,指导帮助农民能多种点粮食、多吃点粮食,大家能够有余粮,能够供应周边省份的其他人吃,当时中
国就流传一句话“要吃粮,找紫阳”。张林还说:在六、四的时候,他之所以能够到天安门广场去探望学生,流着泪说了那番话,这就更说明了他心里是装着别人
的。

64式的镇压可能性越来越小

对于如果出现像89年那样的民众运动中共会如何处理。张林认为:中国社会已经发生了巨大的变
化,中共的专制政治虽然还能勉强的维持,但是事实上这个社会已经分崩离析了。每一个人、每一个群体、每一个地方的人都有自己的想法,中共再想像十五年前那
样,一声令下就进行镇压,很难推行了。现在不管是军队还是警察都是很腐朽的,还有像政府、各级党委都像墙头草一样,看那边形式好就往那边倒,所以说这次很
难估计说会不会发生像“六、四”那样的民主运动和民众运动。一旦引发出来的话,镇压的可能性就越来越小了。他举例子说:“像去年四川发生的几起民众抗议事
件,当局都做了让步,没有将他们定性为“反革命暴徒”,要是在以前,肯定是马上定性为反革命暴乱就开始镇压了。但是现在他一看,动辄七万人、十万人、十几
万人,他也很难进行镇压,他要镇压的话,就可能激起更猛烈的反抗。”

在采访的最后,张林对于中共新领导人上台以后的举措表示失望。他表示:本来很多人都对胡温新政抱有一点希望,但是这点希望不久就破灭了。更进一步,他认为共产党作为一个政党已经没有出路了。但是对于中共内部的个人在于其自己的选择。

Interview with Zhang Lin: Zhao Ziyang was a Sincere Man
http://english.epochtimes.com/news/5-1-30/26128.html


By Qin Yue and Wen Zheng
The Epoch Times
Jan 30,  2005



A mourner bows before a portrait of  Zhao Ziyang in Hong Kong’s Victoria Park. (Mike Clarke/AFP/Getty Images) 
During
a recent interview, well-known Chinese pro-democracy activist Zhang Lin
expressed his sadness over the recent death of former General Secretary
Zhao Ziyang. He remembered Zhao as a sincere man and a unique Chinese
leader who truly cared about the people.

Zhang has been involved in
pro-democracy activities since 1986, when he established several
underground pro-democracy organizations. During the student
pro-democracy movement in 1989, he started several student
organizations and worker organizations in Anhui, such as the Anhui
Branch of Future Society. He was arrested on June 8, 1986, and after
his release in 1991, he continued to devote himself to the
pro-democracy movement in China. He was arrested again in May 1995.
After being released from a forced labor camp in 1998, he went to the
United States to take part in overseas pro-democracy activities. At the
end of October 1998, he secretly returned to China, but was arrested
for the third time by the authorities two days after his arrival. He
was then sentenced to three years in a forced labor camp until the end
of 2001.

In the interview, Zhang praised Zhao as an upright
Communist Party member who was very different from his comrades. Zhang
said that many of his friends had hoped that Zhao might regain his
freedom one day. “We used to believe that he could survive to see
democracy in China. It is a pity that he passed away so early. It is an
enormous loss and we were deeply saddened to hear of his death.”

Zhao
and former General Secretary Hu Yaobang were both well-respected
Chinese leaders, but they both ended up in wretched circumstances.
Zhang said he believed that such tragedy was inevitable. “The
reactionary and autocratic forces Zhao and Hu faced were too powerful,”
he said. “After realizing that the CCP was ridiculous and absurd, they
tried their utmost to turn the situation around and lead China towards
the path of democracy. They failed, however, due to the fierce
opposition from the conservative reactionary forces of the CCP.”

Zhang
said that he thought that unlike most CCP members, who he considers to
be cruel and extremely selfish materialists, Zhao was a considerate and
sincere politician who was truly concerned about others.

Zhang
used the example of the starvation suffered by Chinese people during
Mao’s rule. Instead of focusing his energy on promotion of Marxism and
Leninism, Zhao concentrated on providing farmers with more grain to
feed the people in the worst-hit provinces as well as those in adjacent
provinces. As a result, there was a popular saying, “If you want to eat
grain, you need to go to Zhao Ziyang.” Zhang continued: “Zhao was in
tears when he spoke to the pro-democracy students in Tiananmen Square
during the June 4th incident. This really showed that Zhao was
concerned about others.”

When asked how the Chinese communist
regime would react to another pro-democracy movement like the one in
1989, Zhang said, “Chinese society has undergone tremendous changes.
Though China still sustains its autocratic political system
superficially, the entire society has actually been disintegrated. Each
single person, each ethnic group and population in different areas have
their own ways of thinking. It would be very difficult for the Chinese
regime to launch a crackdown like the one that took place 15 years ago.
Currently, soldiers and policemen are very corrupt, and government
officials, including leaders of the CCP at various levels, are inclined
to change their position with the situation. Therefore, it is hard to
say whether a pro-democracy movement or a massive protest similar to
the June 4th incident would happen again. But even if it happened, the
likelihood of a crackdown similar to the June 4th incident would be
very low.”

He gave an example. “Look at the massive protests
staged by farmers in Sichuan last year. The authorities gave in to the
public and did not consider them ‘counter- revolutionary rioters.’ If
this had happened in the past, it would definitely have been regarded
as a counter-revolutionary uprising and would have immediately resulted
in a massive crackdown. Nowadays, the number of protesters might be
more than 70,000, 100,000 or even more. As a result, it would be
difficult to launch a massive crackdown. If they did, it would very
likely provoke even more violent resistance.

At the end of the
interview, Zhang expressed his disappointment with the performance of
the new CCP leadership. He said that initially, many people still had
some hope for the new Hu Jintao-Wen Jiabao leadership. However, that
little hope quickly vanished. Furthermore, he believes that the CCP has
no future, and that it is time for party members to individually make
their own choices for their future.

Published by Yan Sham-Shackleton

Yan Sham-Shackleton is a Hong Kong writer who lives in Los Angeles. This is her old blog Glutter written mostly in Hong Kong from 2003 to 2007. Although it was a personal blog, Yan focused a lot on free speech issues and democratic movement in Hong Kong. She moved to the US in 2007.

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